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Oh please

Had to say my own piece on this because... well, because otherwise I'll have to start doing my laundry.

Suz, no matter what any of the half-witted awards people say, you didn't 'ballot-stuff'. People who voted for Suz, neither did you. I know you guys don't need to hear this, but I was so amazed when I heard it that I needed to say it for my own sake. Incredible. Next year, there will no doubt be a rule that you must vote for a certain percentage of a category's applicants in order to not be considered a cheater. Either that, or it'll be a rule that says you're not allowed to vote for someone on the basis of name recognition, and if you're suspected of such a atrocity the said story will be disqualified.

Give me a f***ing break. Geine, sweetie, don't waste your time.
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Alli, I hate to have to point this out, but you're not a member of the Awards team. You don't know what you're talking about.

You haven't seen what votes came in. You didn't go through all of the suspect slash votes and meticulously check the security processes to confirm whether or not those votes were valid (ie from different people). I did. You don't know who, or how many. I do.

I don't for a moment believe Suz was responsible for what happened, or even that ske knew what was going on. For all I know, it may have been malicious - an attempt to get her disqualified. But either way it did happen.

This doesn't detract from Suz's awards in ship. Any votes positively identified as invalid are always discarded by the team. She still won. If anything, that shows how popular her work is...which I already knew.

But don't call us liars when you don't know the facts.
Alli, I hate to have to point this out, but you're not a member of the Awards team. You don't know what you're talking about.

You're right. I only know what you decided, for whatever reason, to make public -- which is something I have to seriously wonder about. If you're Suz's knight in shining armor, why call her and her friends into question like that?

I don't recall specifically calling you liars. I said that getting on Suz or the people who voted for her was stupid because, whether we like it or not, fic awards are popularity contests. People do vote on name recognition. Just because you saw a few people commenting on Suz's slash story doesn't give you the right to publically single her out.
why call her and her friends into question like that?

Because if this did come from her friends, they need to know they could have caused her harm. The team policy on ballot stuffing is zero tolerance.

Just because you saw a few people commenting

It was more than a few, Alli. The rules of the awards are very clear.
The team policy on ballot stuffing is zero tolerance.

And of course you won't be on the team next year. How convenient.

It was more than a few, Alli. The rules of the awards are very clear.

Apparently they aren't, because I missed seeing the rule that you have to have read a majority of slash fics before you're allowed to vote for one of them, or the rule about voting by name recognition being grounds for disciplinary action.
And of course you won't be on the team next year. How convenient.

Convenient isn't the word I'd use. For three years I've given up most of my spare time over the summer, and for damned little appreciation. Just bitching from people like you who have plenty to say about what we're doing wrong but when asked to put their money where their mouth is, chicken out.

You were given an opportunity to make your opinions count, Alli. I don't see why I should respect your love of finding fault with anything now.

Apparently they aren't, because I missed seeing the rule that you have to have read a majority of slash fics before you're allowed to vote for one of them,

Really? Well, I've always said people don't read the rules. You are supposed to vote for the story you believe is the best in its category.

Tell me, pray, how you believe you can decide that if you've only read one of them?
Convenient isn't the word I'd use. For three years I've given up most of my spare time over the summer, and for damned little appreciation. Just bitching from people like you who have plenty to say about what we're doing wrong but when asked to put their money where their mouth is, chicken out.

You were given an opportunity to make your opinions count, Alli. I don't see why I should respect your love of finding fault with anything now.


And I don't believe I've ever demanded such respect. I posted my piece on my LJ (as you did on yours, remember?) and if you can't handle the 'bitching' or criticism, maybe you shouldn't be running the awards. All I know is that your comments in general are going to offend people and, by offending them, not make the remaining team members' jobs any easier when next year comes around.

As for giving up for free time for us ingrates, boohoo. I've spent my free time over the last three years doing various fandom-related projects, and I've yet to receieve cards and flowers for my efforts.

You are supposed to vote for the story you believe is the best in its category.

And if someone doesn't typically read Stargate slash but read Suz's because they like her work? They're not allowed to place a vote because they haven't made a carefully weighed and balanced decision? You have to be a card-carrying slasher to cast a vote in slash? Give me a break.

From elsewhere in the thread... Because I can't. Votes are confidential.

No, apparently voter's identities are confidential, but the votes themselves are not.
Okay.
Okay. I had to jump in here.

So, basically what you are saying is that we shouldn't have voted for her....because we were just voting for name's sake?

Excuse me, but personally, I didn't vote for any of the other fics in any other slash catagory because I didn't *read* them. I did read Suz's. Ergo, I voted for what I read. And my vote should have and did count just as much as anyone else's. It was not put forth fraudulently or without thought.

Somehow, your logic doesn't make sense. If you were so worked up about Suz's vote (which, by the way, apparently didn't do to much damage, since she didn't win for her slash story anyway) then why even have the "No Vote In This Catagory" option? Why not *force* everyone to read every story, even if you know you don't like the other authors or perhaps even the topic?

I thought her story was well put together and realistic, insofar as it could be.

I think your comments were uncalled for and spiteful. If you had such issues with the voting process, then maybe you should have changed the way it was set up to begin with.
Re: Okay.
Why not *force* everyone to read every story, even if you know you don't like the other authors or perhaps even the topic?

Of course, it's impossible to do that. You can't know for sure that every person has read every story; there's no way. The best you could do was require a vote in every category; that, of course, opens it up to random vote-casting regardless of whether or not one has read the fic.

But I guess that's better than bad old shippers trying to cheat out a win in Slash! ;)
Re: Okay.
But I guess that's better than bad old shippers trying to cheat out a win in Slash! ;)

Bah.

1. Like she (or we) were cheating.
2. Like any of the slash authors would ... let's see, how will I put this... "lower themselves" to write in another catagory.

I think the story that Suz wrote was good. It was slash, yes, but dammit, who made the rule that if you are considered one group or another you have to STAY in that group?? How narrow-minded.

Heh. I dare the slash writers to write ship. Let's see how they do.

Oh, btw....doesn't a story need 3 people to nom it to be on the awards list?
Re: Okay.
How narrow-minded.

Ooh, Kelly, you mean old shipper ;)

No idea about the nominations thing. Ask Denise.
Re: Okay.
Oh, btw....doesn't a story need 3 people to nom it to be on the awards list?

No. It needs one.
Re: Okay.
1. Like she (or we) were cheating.

I have never said Suz was cheating. I said there was ballot stuffing by individuals other than Suz on behalf of her slash stories. This happens to be the truth. You don't like it? Tough.

I dare the slash writers to write ship. Let's see how they do.

Speaking as a slash writer...I have written ship. And got a nomination for it. But I did not see slash fen ballot stuffing for my story. And I would have disqualified the nomination if that did happen.

The rules apply to everyone. If you don't like 'em, don't play.
Re: Okay.
I have never said Suz was cheating.

No, but you insinuated it. At this stage of the game, same difference. I'll say again...it didn't make any difference one way or the other in the vote, so why did you bother to bring it up at all?

*shrugs* There wasn't any concentrated, organized effort to vote for one person or another. If you don't believe it, fine. Just happens to be the truth.
Re: Okay.
I'll say again...it didn't make any difference one way or the other in the vote, so why did you bother to bring it up at all?

I have already answered that three times. Let's try again.

I brought it up because if what happened was an attempt to 'help' Suz win, her so-called supporters need to know that they broke the rules and that their 'help' could have gotten her banned. Ballot stuffing on someone's behalf is not doing them a favour.
Re: Okay.
[Ballot stuffing on someone's behalf is not doing them a favour]

With all due respect, I think your definition of ballot-stuffing, in this case, is a little over the top.
Re: Okay.
I have never said Suz was cheating. I said there was ballot stuffing by individuals other than Suz on behalf of her slash stories. This happens to be the truth. You don't like it? Tough.


Then why are you not singling those individuals online instead of Suz? The idea of her "promoting" her stories or insisting that folks vote for them is laughable.

Heck, I thought to myself when voting in the slash category, "Hey, I'd better try and remember to look in the "other" category because I loved some of Suz's slash fics" and then, after voting for some of the handful of fics I'd read and having several categories where I didn't choose a fic, submitted my votes and THEN realized that I'd forgotten the categories where her stories were.

Careless of me, wasn't it?

I can understand your frustration with such a situation as ballot-stuffing. But instead of going after the folks who did it, you're pushing Suz into the spotlight for some negative publicity.

And that really stinks.
Re: Okay.
Then why are you not singling those individuals online instead of Suz?

Because I can't. Votes are confidential.

The idea of her "promoting" her stories or insisting that folks vote for them is laughable.

I'm aware of it. And I've said so. Geez.

For the fifth time...

I brought it up because if what happened was an attempt to 'help' Suz win, her so-called supporters need to know that they broke the rules and that their 'help' could have gotten her banned. Ballot stuffing on someone's behalf is not doing them a favour.

you're pushing Suz into the spotlight for some negative publicity.

I made a brief comment in my LJ. The people pushing this into the spotlight are those who have insisted on discussing it elsewhere. There are not may people who read my journal. But there are a *lot* who read this one.
Re: Okay.
Ballot stuffing on someone's behalf is not doing them a favour.

Ok. I'm curious, then, as to your definition of ballot-stuffing. Because I went and looked at the original entry on your LJ, and it came across to me that you think voting only for stories one likes in certain categories is one form of ballot-stuffing.

I didn't vote in every category in slash, but I do read a fair number of slash stories each year. Aside from a few pairings that aren't widely written (such as pairings with Jonas in them) I don't play in slash fandom, and I'm sure some folks would think I've never read slash in my life because I don't write it. Am I not fen-y enough to be voting, in that case?

What's next? We register fans with barcodes and say they can only vote in sections X, Y, or Z?

made a brief comment in my LJ. The people pushing this into the spotlight are those who have insisted on discussing it elsewhere. There are not may people who read my journal. But there are a *lot* who read this one.

You're the one who mentioned it in the first place. By now, you should be aware how things posted on the internet have a way of actually being read from time to time. I don't believe you're going to be able to take a pass from accepting responsibility on this one.
Re: Okay.
I said there was ballot stuffing by individuals other than Suz on behalf of her slash stories.

Ballot stuffing as in, people coming up with sockpuppet emails and voting multiple times for her stories? Or the make-believe definition -- ballot stuffing as in people voting for Suz and only Suz because Suz's stories were the only slash fic they like?