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"Sleepers" thoughts

I've been pondering this the last couple days, usually when I'm at work and bored bored bored and I need something, anything, to occupy my mind. Really, fanfiction is pretty tame as possible topics go *g*

Anyway, I've been thinking about what kind of fic I want Sleepers to be, because as the plot stands (both in writing and in my head) I think it's kinda cool... at least it has potential. So on top of taking care with the copious details and ever-more complicatedness of it, I want to know ahead of time where I'm going with it. There's probably a term for what I'm trying to describe, something long and containing the word 'thematic'.

I don't want to make it pure ship, because that's too easy. Well, no, 'easy' isn't the right word. I've done a lot of ship. I've explored various avenues, how to get the characters from point A (A for Angst) to point B (B for bed) and occasionally to point C (C for kidlets. Or something like that). And I know there are lots of challenging ship plots to be had out there in the wide wide world of Museyness, but Sleepers just isn't one of them. If the story ends with Sam and Jack making happy families, it makes it look like the whole fic was just about getting Sam and Jack to make happy families, and that's not it at all.

By the same token, I don't want to make it pure gen, because, well, gen in this fandom has bad connotations for me. It means lots of Daniel and Jack talking about rocks and Jack fussing over Daniel's not eating and Daniel pondering what a good if occasionally idiotic doofus of a friend Jack is. And that can't be it because there's no Daniel in this fic... and if there are rocks, they sneaked in there accidentally. Point being, I don't like the label gen because so often gen fic isn't what it promises to be... a reflection of canon. Which shouldn't surprise anyone, considering how many whacked and wacky versions of canon in this fandom, perpetuated by whacked and wacky people who can't just say "I don't like it but I accept it", noooo, they have to stick their heads in the ground and act like morons.

Went astray a little there.

Anyway, standing there at work, trying to look cute and perky and awake (the last one being the only really hard one, of course) I started thinking about gen and how so many stories use that label to, IMO, misrepresent canon through the use of smarm. Gen is supposed to be this emotional no fly zone where none of the characters have 'those' kinds of feelings for each other, regardless of the fact that they do on the show (shut up, Yam*), but naaaturally not having 'those' kinds of feelings doesn't preclude buckets and buckets of Jack n Danny smarmy goodness.

In other words... Sam smiles at her cake while Jack sits across the table sends up ship warnings, but Jack can can look at Daniel's butt and fret about how everyone wants to nail him and hug him every five seconds and Jack and Daniel can be compared to a close married couple who mean sooo much to each other They're not making out or anything, are they? They're not professing love, are they? They're not doing anything that isn't being reasonably extrapolated from the series, are they?

Well... yes. What these smarm-gen stories seem to be doing is selecting specific moments in the show, taking them out of context, and then writing hundred page stories based on the extracted warm fuzzy feelings. For example, the overuse of 'Spacemonkey'. (It's okay, Brad, it's not really your fault. You couldn't have known). How many 'gen' fics have been written based on the awwwww... feeling a writer had after seeing that scene?

And yes, I know the double standards thing has probably been talked to death... those of us who know it exists know it exists, and those who don't want to see it never will because they're just not on this side of the fence. Fair 'nuff. But it still ticks me off. And it made me think about what kind of fic I want Sleepers to be. In defiance of smarm-gen, I want it to be UST-gen. I want to call it gen and hear people whine... but the main characters in it are Sam and Jack. Sure, they never make it to Point B, but the story is about them and their friendship... that's not gen and I want to be able to reply It is now! and follow that up with an evil kind of laugh. I want somebody to start reading this gen story of mine and get grossed out halfway through because they were expecting some smarmy lovin' and got Jack and Sam being concerned about each other instead. I want to toss something different into the genre. I want to lead a revolt, gather troops, and take back the genre... or at least a small portion of it.

Not sure exactly what that says about me, but there it is.
  • Current Mood: mischievous mischievous
It sounds like a story I would enjoy reading.

[In other words... Sam smiles at her cake while Jack sits across the table sends up ship warnings]

I think that's because so much ship in the big archives is labelled as Gen. I'm not sure when the big divide between the two started, but it was early on, wasn't it? It's one thing to read a gen story and find it's not about Jack and Daniel. It's another to start reading something "gen" and run into Jack and Sam passionately kissing, or whatever. So people (like me, I guess) tend to bail at the first hint of ship.

[Jack and Daniel can be compared to a close married couple who mean sooo much to each other They're not making out or anything, are they?]

That one's tougher. I don't like smarm. I'd rather the author was honest and let the boys jump into bed. But I also think some of the people who write that way honestly don't think they're writing slash. Or intend to. I have a feeling I'll never convince you, but there is a difference between smarm, pre-slash and slash.

[I want to call it gen and hear people whine... but the main characters in it are Sam and Jack. Sure, they never make it to Point B, but the story is about them and their friendship... that's not gen and I want to be able to reply It is now! and follow that up with an evil kind of laugh.]

Sounds like a plan to me! I'd question your terminology (to me, the point about smarm is it's *not* sexual. UST by definition *is*. It sounds like what you're really looking for is S/J smarm?) but it would be cool to read, either way. In fact, it sounds like the story I've been searching for :-)

(PS. Can I persuade you to post this on SGC-L? Or may I post a link? I think the distinctions between the different fic labels would make a good subject for debate.)

blessed be

Morgan )O(
I think that's because so much ship in the big archives is labelled as Gen. I'm not sure when the big divide between the two started, but it was early on, wasn't it?

Hmm, it must've been, because I don't personally recall it *g*

It's one thing to read a gen story and find it's not about Jack and Daniel. It's another to start reading something "gen" and run into Jack and Sam passionately kissing, or whatever. So people (like me, I guess) tend to bail at the first hint of ship.

Well if there's a story with Sam and Jack passionately kissing, and it's labelled gen... well, than it's not gen and I guess you should take that up with the author. ;)

That one's tougher. I don't like smarm. I'd rather the author was honest and let the boys jump into bed. But I also think some of the people who write that way honestly don't think they're writing slash. Or intend to. I have a feeling I'll never convince you, but there is a difference between smarm, pre-slash and slash.

Then maybe my issues are really with pre-slash? I can only take the authors at their word for this, and a lot of what's called smarm or what just seems smarmy does have sexual undertones, as in the examples I gave. There is smarm that doesn't fall into this category, sure, such as stories where there's more of a father/son bent... of course, that doesn't squick me any less *eg*

Sounds like a plan to me! I'd question your terminology (to me, the point about smarm is it's *not* sexual. UST by definition *is*. It sounds like what you're really looking for is S/J smarm?)

Heheh... maybe terminologywise we're talking about the same thing, but "S/J smarm" ... well, there was shuddering going on on this end ;) Basically all I want to do is have the same leeway to project in gen fic as the Jack & Daniel As Bestest Friends writers do.

PS. Can I persuade you to post this on SGC-L? Or may I post a link? I think the distinctions between the different fic labels would make a good subject for debate.)

Ahhh... sure. Post a link. Just so long as we can keep the discussion on the list not here. I always feel I have to reply when people post here *